Thoughts on Netlify

[Harnum, Alan]

Expanding as requested - I think the main issue is the appearance of HTML tags in the rich text interface. Examining more closely, I can see that this is because the expectation appears to be that content is being stored purely in markdown. So I can see better how a site could be built and structured for a relatively friendly editing experience.

I think Jon put it well that it appears at this point in time to be "an interface for data entry with a bit of workflow control" - these aren't unimportant things but I am uncertain how well a site could be maintained by someone without knowledge of HTML and Markdown. I wonder what it would look like to build a relatively "safe for end users to edit" site within this structure, though that in itself has many assumptions. 

None of this is intended as criticism of the Netlify CMS generally, I should say - as someone who writes nearly everything in Markdown, the idea of a nice interface for editing Markdown-based static sites is great. As I've become fond of saying, it takes significant design and development resources to make a process with as many moving pieces as putting a website on the internet "simple" - I've witnessed this firsthand helping people use SquareSpace and similar "site builder" products, which have their own frustrations, even after many years of investment by the companies involved.

On 2018-12-12, 10:24 PM, "Gill, Avtar" <agill at ocadu.ca> wrote:

    > the "rich text" option displays HTML tags  
    
    To be fair the presence of HTML tags has more to do with how I implemented the designs. Had I started with Hugo I probably would have caught that earlier and chosen options to ensure the markdown content looked more like this https://raw.githubusercontent.com/avtar/sojustrepairit.org/SJRK-166/content/about/get-involved.md as opposed to relying on more classes https://raw.githubusercontent.com/avtar/sojustrepairit.org/SJRK-166/content/partners/karisma.md I’ll make a note to fix that.
    
    > and Hugo shortcodes,
    
    I don’t know if this can be avoided :/ The alternative is more markup https://raw.githubusercontent.com/avtar/sojustrepairit.org/SJRK-166/layouts/shortcodes/heading-rule.html as opposed to the following shortcode:
    {{< heading-rule >}}
    
    > and generally doesn't behave like I'd expect a rich text / WYSIWYG interface to behave
    
    Could you please expand on that?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Avtar
    
    
    > On Dec 12, 2018, at 11:18 AM, Harnum, Alan <aharnum at ocadu.ca> wrote:
    > 
    > I will echo some of Jon's thoughts - I don't feel like, at least in the version I tested, the Netlify UI achieves the desirable "someone who doesn't know markup can create content in a WYSIWYG interface" effect.
    > 
    > It also seems like use of the features that make a static site generator desirable (repeated headers / footers, short codes / helpers, etc) may cause the interface to present in confusing ways - the "rich text" option displays HTML tags and Hugo shortcodes, and generally doesn't behave like I'd expect a rich text / WYSIWYG interface to behave. This is likely to be a block on the ability of users to edit and create content.
    > 
    > I do like the workflow setup at a glance, but my quick take is that this feels like it's optimized for managing blog/news-style sites, and may require further wrangling to actually make it something that can manage a full website (this same thing can be said for Wordpress, to be fair).
    > 
    > On 2018-12-12, 10:52 AM, "fluid-work on behalf of Gill, Avtar" <fluid-work-bounces at lists.idrc.ocad.ca on behalf of agill at ocadu.ca> wrote:
    > 
    >    Hi Jon,
    > 
    >    Thanks for your feedback!
    > 
    >> If the site maintainers wanted to change some colours, add a logo to the footer, or adjust some layout - they would still have to use the traditional method of modifying the code.
    > 
    >    This sounds about right. It might be worth comparing Netlify CMS to something like WordPress. One person might be comfortable with HTML and CSS enough to customize the theme being used or tackle layout issues. Whereas others might only want to edit content on pages or create new blog posts. In this respect perhaps Hugo and Netlify CMS serve the same purpose?
    > 
    >    Avtar
    > 
    > 
    >> On Dec 11, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Hung, Jonathan <jhung at ocadu.ca> wrote:
    >> 
    >> Hi everyone (specifically "Hi Avtar" since he asked for this feedback),
    >> 
    >> I spent a couple minutes exploring Netlify and here are my incoherent thoughts (you've been warned).
    >> 
    >> The interface only allows editing or creating content. It doesn't seem to allow you to do much more than that.
    >> 
    >> If the site maintainers wanted to change some colours, add a logo to the footer, or adjust some layout - they would still have to use the traditional method of modifying the code.
    >> 
    >> Netlify is not a full-serve "user-friendly" interface for administering and maintaining Hugo sites - it seems to me to be more of an interface for data entry with a bit of workflow control. You still need someone capable of maintaining a traditional Hugo site.
    >> 
    >> Depending on who will be using Netlify + Hugo once deployed, there may need to be some training or documentation covering capabilities of Netlify (including can not be done) and typical workflows. Some documentation about the custom shortcodes would be useful too.
    >> 
    >> Hope that helps.
    >> 
    >> - Jon.
    >> 
    >> ---
    >> Jonathan Hung, Inclusive Designer
    >> Email: jhung at ocadu.ca
    >> OCAD University
    >> Inclusive Design Research Centre
    >> 
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