Need to pick an accessible drop-down...

Steve Lee steve at
Thu Aug 14 19:26:01 UTC 2014

Ah, a slightly different angle. One I heard about at ICCHP when you where

Would be good to discuss when we next meet.

My stance, for now, is encapsulation is useful if carefully applied. Grey
or white boxes rather than black. If I use a tool I'm happy to learn how to
use it without all its guts exposed to confuse me. Unless I want to adapt
it, then I dig in and learn the glorious details within.


Autocomplete may have messed with my text
On 14 Aug 2014 20:11, "Antranig Basman" <antranig.basman at>

> There's modularisation, and there's balkanisation. Web components fight
> against the spirit and also the practice of the free and open web, by
> making it impossible to influence or even access the markup and UI material
> operated by another component. "black boxes" are exactly what we don't
> want. The aim of Infusion, for example, is to make even more parts of an
> implementation open for inspection and modification than were previously
> available - by taking material that used to be locked up in JS
> implementation files and exposing it publically as JSON configuration. Web
> Components take us decisively in the wrong direction, by taking what used
> to be exposed in a public DOM with public behaviour and locking it away.
> These issues take a while to talk around and to establish - since this
> terrain isn't easy or obvious. A lot of what is "established wisdom" in
> Computer Science - re, for example, modularisation, insulation,
> encapsulation, and abstraction, has grown up over the years as a
> self-reinforcing network of ideas - and may not well-founded. Such
> "insulation-based thinking" is certainly inappropriate and unhelpful for a
> community whose aim is to promote the development and use of accessible
> interfaces. As well as working in the open (open source), we need to
> promote the creation of open artifacts. Open artifacts are ones where the
> intention of the user can reach down right to the ground level in every
> area of the implementation - with no "black boxes".
> Cheers,
> Antranig
> On 14/08/2014 19:53, Steve Lee wrote:
>> Hmm, I disagree. Web components are simply an architectural
>> modularisation technique. At least with custom elements, and largely
>> shadow DOM etc.
>> You get all the advantages of ease of use of your new tags as a black
>> box (just like standard elements) but all code is part of your project.
>> If you use existing web components you just pick open source ones with
>> healthy community. Same as any thing else you will depend on.
>> Or am I missing your point?
>> I used XBL, a precursor W3C standard, in Maavis and found the approach
>> added much to what is otherwise architecturally easy in JS.
>> Steve
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