moving the website out of CMSMS

Jess Mitchell jessmitchell at
Mon Nov 23 22:01:15 UTC 2009

Dear All,

I wanted to say a few things in this thread but wanted to wait until  
the kernels of corn had slowed their popping frequency.  So, here's my  

Can we build up our website without a CMS with the following  
	pithy and easy to navigate
	dynamic -- audio and video are already here -- as are great Fluid  
	easy to update for team members
	nimble -- able to incorporate new Fluid components as they come online
For me the priorities for our web presence are:
	freshened look and feel
	freshened content (incorporate Fluid Foundation work, sensibly make  
clear the different Fluid projects and Fluid products)
	no downtime
	no spam
	no DOS
	an integration plan for the wiki -- folks who go to the wiki should  
not "fall out of" the website
	sensible urls (e.g.

So, I ask again, can we build this site without a CMS and accomplish  
these priorities?  Or, as Jonathan said, will a modified Wordpress get  
us there?  In other words, what is the best, lowest cost to entry  


On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:20 AM, nate.angell at wrote:

> FYI: One of the best spam-protection, comment moderation tools out  
> there is Mollom, which integrates with wordpress and drupal, among  
> others.
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:08 PM, Eli Cochran <eli at>  
> wrote:
>> I don't know how useful this information is, but... I learned this  
>> afternoon that the jQuery web site is going to move from a  
>> MediaWiki based site to Word Press. The jQuery team claims the  
>> primary reason is to manage comment spam while allowing for a  
>> greater level of community involvement in their documentation.  
>> Apparently they felt that the moderation tools in WordPress  
>> provided them what they need.
>> - Eli
>> On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Jonathan Hung wrote:
>>> I think what we choose will depend largely on what we want to  
>>> accomplish.
>>> If we're looking to build custom features, deliver a lot of  
>>> content, and desire a lot of control over the presentation, then  
>>> Drupal may be a good choice.  (If we're ambitious and have the  
>>> resources, Drupal would be an excellent choice to bring together  
>>> the Wiki, and Jira into a cohesive location.)
>>> If we're looking for collaboration, then MediaWiki may be a good  
>>> route?
>>> But if we're wanting something simple to get the message across,  
>>> then a slightly modified Wordpress is effective.
>>> But my question is: What are we trying to accomplish through the  
>>> website? The answer may help us decide what we do next.
>>> - Jonathan.
>>> ---
>>> Jonathan Hung / jhung.utoronto at
>>> Fluid Project - ATRC at University of Toronto
>>> Tel: (416) 946-3002
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jacob Farber <jacob.farber at 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Is there a reason we're only thinking in terms of CMSMS or not  
>>> CMSMS? What about other, more powerful cms's?
>>> Jacob
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Laurel A. Williams <laurel.williams at 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> For some time now, we've been discussing moving the website out of  
>>> CMSMS. I'd like to start a discussion of the pros and cons of  
>>> doing this and also talk about some techniques we could use for  
>>> accomplishing the task if we decide to do it. Here is the jira  
>>> task:
>>> Advantages that CMSMS gives us:
>>> 1) The ability to allow various community members to post to the  
>>> website with specific roles such as editor, administrator, and  
>>> designer. We do not take advantage of this ability right now. The  
>>> only people who edit the website all have admin access and there  
>>> are very few accounts.
>>> 2) CMSMS allows us to use fixed templates for the header, footer  
>>> and other common code blocks so we don't have to edit and maintain  
>>> common code blocks on each page.
>>> 3) CMSMS provides some add ons, such as the news pages,  
>>> breadcrumbs, menu generation and rss feeds with very little work.  
>>> It also provides a maintenance mode for when we are doing upgrades  
>>> (a site down message is displayed.
>>> Disadvantages:
>>> 1) Being constrained by CMSMS has made editing somewhat onerous  
>>> for experienced web app developers. The CSS is stored in the DB in  
>>> one place, the common code chunks in another, the content for  
>>> individual pages in another place. The interface for editing the  
>>> pages is not very user friendly for people who are used to  
>>> tweaking html in text editors or using their favourite html  
>>> editing environment.
>>> 2) CMSMS continues to evolve and updates are tricky. There is  
>>> always a danger of breaking the site when we upgrade and not  
>>> upgrading puts the website at risk for security flaws.
>>> 3) Having the website in CMSMS does not allow us to version the  
>>> site or revert changes easily.
>>> So, if we are merely using CMSMS because of advantages 2 and 3, we  
>>> should think about alternative techniques.
>>> Some thoughts:
>>> a) We are a javascript focused project - maybe we should use  
>>> javascript to tackle these problems. This could have the advantage  
>>> of allowing us to showcase the Fluid framework on our own website.  
>>> Colin suggested using something like Kettle to manage various  
>>> includes. Jess also suggested I develop a 'menu component'.
>>> b) I've been doing a lot of PHP lately for the builder. PHP is  
>>> another option. I think its main advantage is that it would be  
>>> quick to swap over the current CMSMS site to PHP.
>>> I am sure the community has lots of ideas to contribute on this  
>>> subject, so looking forward to your thoughts.
>>> Laurel
>>> _______________________________________________________
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>>> see
>>> -- 
>>> Jacob Farber
>>> University of Toronto - ATRC
>>> Tel: (416) 946-3002
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>>> fluid-work mailing list - fluid-work at
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>>> see
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>>> fluid-work mailing list - fluid-work at
>>> To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives,
>>> see
>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>> Eli Cochran
>> user interaction developer
>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>> _______________________________________________________
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>> see
> _______________________________________________________
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