Designers: Re: Inline Edit - clearing the field

Wed Jun 25 16:19:27 UTC 2008

It seems like a couple of main distinctions between in-line editing  
and in-line authoring is the existence of the item/object and the  
level of change/authoring.  With editing, the object already exists  
and the edit is happening on information about the object.  That  
information might have been empty previously but even empty is  
information.  The assignments 2 storyboard Allison points to shows the  
group field empty for an assignment which is information in itself (no  
group assigned).

In-line authoring -- which would be a very cool component -- seems  
like it would be at the 'create a new object' level.

Good discussion!  The boundaries for components are very tricky.  I'm  
sure we'll continue to have discussions like this and probably  
continue to evolve our ideas about those boundaries.

-Daphne

On Jun 24, 2008, at 5:00 PM, Allison Bloodworth wrote:

> Hi Clay,
>
> I couldn't find the situation you were talking about with JIRA sub-
> tasks, but did play with NetVibe's ToDo list. Generally, I think that
> adding a new item *is* different from in-line edit because the content
> item (a to do) doesn't exist yet. It's sort of an "Add New" item
> situation, which I don't think falls under the in-line edit component
> (but would certainly be interested in hearing other views). Creating a
> new item as you suggest I think could be called inline authoring, and
> it probably has many wide-ranging use cases. In the use cases I worked
> on for in-line edit, there was already a (parent) item/object (e.g. an
> Assignment), but some of it's values weren't yet filled in (e.g.
> Groups).  (see http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Inline+Edit+Storyboard+-+Edit+information+with+constrained+choices+and+dates)
>
> In terms of having an affordance to delete text (I'm guessing you're
> suggesting an icon), again I'm wondering if that's more appropriate
> where you're deleting an entire item (e.g. a to do) and not some text
> within an item (e.g. a group within an assignment). We'd also have to
> balance adding an icon with space and keeping the interface simple. In
> the Assignments example I don't think this would work as space is at a
> premium, and it was hard even to find a place for the "Undo" button.
> Perhaps it might be helpful in situations where users are often
> completely deleting many in-line editable items, but I haven't heard
> about a use case for that yet--I think it's most often the reverse (if
> anyone knows of one, though, do let us know).
>
> We also talked about the potential of highlighting all the text in an
> in-line edit item when the user clicked on it (for easy deletion), but
> wanted to balance that with protecting the user from inadvertently
> deleting something, and also make it as easy as possible for the user
> to do what they normally do. (e.g. are they normally entering an
> entirely new value, or are they more often adding text at the end of
> the current value?) Perhaps we can make this configurable and give
> advice on when to use each method in the design pattern.
>
> Cheers,
> Allison
>
> On Jun 24, 2008, at 6:59 AM, Clay Fenlason wrote:
>
>> If the aim is to allow for tasks that clear fields, does that mean
>> there should be some sort of "delete" affordance built in?  I haven't
>> looked at recent mockups, but I don't recall if something like that
>> was there.  Going in and erasing-by-editing seems to involve an extra
>> step of cleverness that could be a nuisance if all you want to do is
>> wipe something away
>>
>> Also, creating a new value where one didn't exist previously seems to
>> me a task rather different - I might call it "inline authoring"
>> instead.  The vast majority of cases, I would think, involve some
>> correction or revision of a value when there has either been a  
>> mistake
>> or a change of circumstances.
>>
>> Which reminds me of some other examples where inline editing and
>> inline authoring are both related but distinct.  Take a look at the
>> creation of subtasks in JIRA, for example, or the To-Do widget in
>> NetVibes.  In both cases you can create a new row in a listing with a
>> kind of "add" mechanism which also looks and feels very similarly to
>> the inline editing.
>>
>> Does that mean inline authoring should be part of this component, or
>> something different?
>>
>> ~Clay
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Allison Bloodworth
>> <abloodworth at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>> Hi Anastasia,
>>>
>>> As Daphne mentioned, we a bit talked about this issue in the design
>>> review on Friday. I'm going to put together some mock-ups with a
>>> message in the empty fields (in a manner similar to what Eli
>>> suggests)
>>> for the contexts where this makes sense (e.g. where there aren't
>>> going
>>> to be a ton of blank fields on a page--something we'll give advice
>>> about in the design pattern), but assume whether or not this text
>>> appears will be configurable by the designer/developer.
>>>
>>> I agree with you (and Eli) that there should be a min-width on empty
>>> fields so that the yellow background shows up on rollover. I'll
>>> specify this in the story cards.
>>>
>>> One other point we were discussing was the fact that when someone
>>> tries to clear a field that did have a value but *cannot* be empty,
>>> the user should receive some sort of error message (and the original
>>> data should probably be saved if the user doesn't enter anything
>>> new).
>>> This (Error Handling) is something that we plan to create  
>>> storyboards
>>> for in a future iteration. If it's something you need soon, let us
>>> know and we'll move that task up in priority.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Allison
>>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have two suggestions, the first is to have a minimum width. The
>>>> second is to put in default text into the space, such as "Click  
>>>> here
>>>> to edit", which gives the visual clue to the user that the space is
>>>> editable and also helps enforce the min width for browsers that
>>>> don't
>>>> support min width very well.
>>>>
>>>> Usually when this is done, the default text is displayed in a  
>>>> dimmed
>>>> and/or alternate font.
>>>>
>>>> - Eli
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 23, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Anastasia Cheetham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll see that even though the group field is empty the inline
>>>>>> edit
>>>>>> discovery interaction of highlight and hover message apply.  For
>>>>>> now, the interaction you describe should probably work the same
>>>>>> way.  One of the challenges here is the varying contexts.
>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>> it is really important for an empty field to be empty (in a
>>>>>> particularly busy interface for instance or when there are lots  
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> empty values so textually describing the emptiness is huge  
>>>>>> clutter
>>>>>> and noise).  Other times it might not be bad to have a textual
>>>>>> indication that the field is empty.  In Friday's design review we
>>>>>> decided this was likely something controlled by the integrating
>>>>>> app.  Does that make sense?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Daphne, thanks for your feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently, the highlight and hover behaviour is the same,
>>>>> regardless
>>>>> of whether or not the field is empty. The issue is that when the
>>>>> field
>>>>> is empty, it is very small, so that when you hover over it, for
>>>>> example, the yellow highlight is a very small area, and easy to
>>>>> miss
>>>>> (and probably hard to target).
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice that when you do click on it, the editable field
>>>>> defaults to
>>>>> a minimum width that is larger than the empty field - if the hover
>>>>> highlight were styled to also have this minimum width, might that
>>>>> address the usability issue?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Anastasia Cheetham                   a.cheetham at utoronto.ca
>>>>> Software Designer, Fluid Project    http://fluidproject.org
>>>>> Adaptive Technology Resource Centre / University of Toronto
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>
>>>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>>>>
>>>> Eli Cochran
>>>> user interaction developer
>>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>
>>> Allison Bloodworth
>>> Senior User Interaction Designer
>>> Educational Technology Services
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> (415) 377-8243
>>> abloodworth at berkeley.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Clay Fenlason
>> Director, Educational Technology
>> Georgia Institute of Technology
>> (404) 385-6644
>
> Allison Bloodworth
> Senior User Interaction Designer
> Educational Technology Services
> University of California, Berkeley
> (415) 377-8243
> abloodworth at berkeley.edu
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fluid-work mailing list
> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work

Daphne Ogle
Senior Interaction Designer
University of California, Berkeley
Educational Technology Services
daphne at media.berkeley.edu
cell (510)847-0308