Section Info based inline edit sample

Daphne Ogle daphne at media.berkeley.edu
Wed Aug 27 20:33:51 UTC 2008


Right.

And we made the decision early on that we only needed one level of  
undo for our current implementations of simple text edit.  The  
multilevel undo really comes into play with document-style (word  
processing) editing where a user may make many different changes on a  
page rather than just changing a single text field.  I probably  
shouldn't have mucked up the icon versus text discussion with the  
aside.  Sorry about that :).

-Daphne

On Aug 27, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:

> While I'm not saying that it's the right thing to do, I would like  
> to point out that very few web applications even attempt to  
> implement multilevel Undo.
>
> gMail only allows you to undo your last activity and once you do  
> anything else, you lose the ability to go back at all.
>
> Some apps are getting more sophisticated but it's still a new model  
> on the web... actually bleeding edge given the technical hurdles.
>
> - Eli
>
> On Aug 27, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Daphne Ogle wrote:
>
>> These do seem the best of the choices we've seen so far and I think  
>> they work well in their context. But I agree with you Eli that  
>> displaying them as a set adds to their clarity.   On top of the  
>> real estate issue for displaying both, our undo and redo are a one  
>> time action so I don't think they are ever available together.    
>> The additional challenge and vagueness for us in contexts like  
>> section info is that the proximity of the icon ends up being closer  
>> to the next field then the text that was edited if it's shorter  
>> than the text field itself.  If we use text now for testing we can  
>> get a feel for whether or not users get our undo and redo.  We can  
>> easily get feedback on icons later without running an entire test.
>>
>> As a total aside:  We could rethink them and implement true undo  
>> and redos (not restricting to undoing only last change).  We  
>> wouldn't want to make the change just so we can show them together  
>> Allison and I have been discussing exploring true undos and redos  
>> -- particularly if one of the Sakai UX or uPortal announcements  
>> context require it.  True undo complicates the interaction for the  
>> user with much more memory load but we could build in reminders of  
>> the previous edits and let them choose which one to go to.
>>
>> -Daphne
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 7:12 PM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>>
>>> The icons in MS Word are really good. (enclosed)
>>>
>>> One thing that I really like about them is that they are two  
>>> different colors. But the other thing about them which helps make  
>>> them clearer as to their purpose is that they are always seen  
>>> together. I'm not sure that we would want use so much room.
>>>
>>> <pastedGraphic.tiff>
>>>
>>> - Eli
>>>
>>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Allison Bloodworth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> In an ideal world we'd have the icons we wanted picked out, and  
>>>> could rely on the tooltip to give folks the information about  
>>>> what exactly they were. I do believe it would be best to to use  
>>>> the sort of standard, mirrored arrow-type Undo and Redo icons  
>>>> (e.g. a la Microsoft Word, see the Undo & Redo icons on this  
>>>> page: http://www.readyicons.com/iconset-preview.php?id=11), but  
>>>> wasn't able to find a free version that I liked when I looked.
>>>>
>>>> If we are just uing Undo, I think the icon we have is OK for now.  
>>>> If we are also testing Redo, it would be better to have text if  
>>>> we can't find better icons. I can take another look around for  
>>>> some tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> Allison
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Daphne Ogle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm voting for a text link rather than icons.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Daphne
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Daphne,
>>>>>> I agree with you that there will probably be some confusion  
>>>>>> around Undo and Redo. I'm not sure I understand what you are  
>>>>>> suggesting. There is already a tooltip for Undo/Redo (at least  
>>>>>> there is in FF, I just used the title tag). Are you saying that  
>>>>>> you would also like a label next to or under the icon?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know. I'll revisit this tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Eli
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Daphne Ogle wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks good Eli!  Nice work!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A couple of things:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -  Until we come up with a meaningful icon I vote for using  
>>>>>>> text to make it clear what the user can do.  The addition of  
>>>>>>> undo adds some challenge for the user to not only figure out  
>>>>>>> what one icon does but what 2 siimilar only mirrored icons  
>>>>>>> do.  Because of their similarity its also more difficult to  
>>>>>>> distinguish between them and when they change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -  Just an FYI for everyone -- there is still a debate about  
>>>>>>> the usefulness and need for redo in the simple text field edit  
>>>>>>> context here.  We are hoping user testing will help us better  
>>>>>>> understand the tradeoffs of adding the complexity versus how  
>>>>>>> often redo is actually needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Daphne
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Justin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Eli,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been checking it out today. It looks good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've added it to the Inline Edit QA test plan. Now we will be  
>>>>>>>> able to do QA testing on the undo/redo functionality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26-Aug-08, at 3:34 PM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>> The Section Info based inline edit sample is pretty much done.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is a little bit of accessibility work to be done with  
>>>>>>>>> the Undo/Redo, Undo/Redo is in the wrong tab order because  
>>>>>>>>> I'm floating it right. I'm doing this for formatting reasons  
>>>>>>>>> and I can fix it with a little more sophisticated markup  
>>>>>>>>> when I get a chance. Also when you activate Undo or Redo,  
>>>>>>>>> the focus should stay on the Undo/Redo link.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But other than that, I think that it's in good shape.  
>>>>>>>>> Certainly good enough for testing and for beta.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Inline Edit and the Undo code are very fun to work with.  
>>>>>>>>> Kudos to those who developed on the code. Very easy to  
>>>>>>>>> implement. Well, I had a little trouble with Undo, but once  
>>>>>>>>> Colin helped me with an undocumented and slightly confusing  
>>>>>>>>> API change, it worked like a charm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please check it out: http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/sample-code/inline-edit/section-info/section-info.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Eli
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eli Cochran
>>>>>>>>> user interaction developer
>>>>>>>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>>>>>>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>>>>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>>>>>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>>>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daphne Ogle
>>>>>>> Senior Interaction Designer
>>>>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>>>>> Educational Technology Services
>>>>>>> daphne at media.berkeley.edu
>>>>>>> cell (510)847-0308
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eli Cochran
>>>>>> user interaction developer
>>>>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Daphne Ogle
>>>>> Senior Interaction Designer
>>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>>> Educational Technology Services
>>>>> daphne at media.berkeley.edu
>>>>> cell (510)847-0308
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> fluid-work mailing list
>>>>> fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>
>>>> Allison Bloodworth
>>>> Senior User Interaction Designer
>>>> Educational Technology Services
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> (415) 377-8243
>>>> abloodworth at berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>>>
>>> Eli Cochran
>>> user interaction developer
>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Daphne Ogle
>> Senior Interaction Designer
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> Educational Technology Services
>> daphne at media.berkeley.edu
>> cell (510)847-0308
>>
>>
>>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .
>
> Eli Cochran
> user interaction developer
> ETS, UC Berkeley
>
>

Daphne Ogle
Senior Interaction Designer
University of California, Berkeley
Educational Technology Services
daphne at media.berkeley.edu
cell (510)847-0308



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