Response to Fluid demo page

Allison Bloodworth abloodworth at
Mon Nov 26 23:09:02 UTC 2007

It seems like the proper interaction takes place when you "pick up"  
the image using the keyboard--it turns gray just like the original  
image does when you pick it up with the mouse. I agree that when you  
have moved it but not yet "dropped" it, however, it is really hard to  
follow. The interaction also seems correct for when the image is  
dropped via keyboard--just as it does with the mouse, it appears as a  
selected image. It is just that with the keyboard in that midway  
state where it isn't in its old spot anymore and is in a temporary  
spot but not yet "dropped" at its new spot that it's hard to know  
what has happened.

However, I think I see what the person making the comments below is  
suggesting, and it sounds like it could be a good solution.  
Essentially, until the keyboard user has "dropped" the image by  
releasing CTRL+arrow, they image shouldn't move. Instead, the half- 
tone image should remain in its old spot and the new (potential) spot  
should be indicated by the red line (the same way it happens with the  
mouse). After it's dropped, the image moves to that spot and the red  
indicator goes away. It seems that would make what is happening  
easiest to follow for the user, and it would match the mouse  
interaction almost exactly.

On Nov 19, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Daphne Ogle wrote:

> Comments below...
> On Nov 19, 2007, at 6:58 AM, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote:
>> All,
>> A few weeks back, I posted a message to the wai-xtech DHTML style  
>> guide
>> working group asking for their opinions about the fluid demos on
>> Specifcially, I asked:
>>> In terms of keyboard accessibility, the Reorderer currently defines:
>>> 1. the arrow keys for navigating among the orderable items, and
>>> 2. control+arrow to move an orderable item to a new location.
>>> The latter constitutes a kind of keyboard based drag-and-drop. In
>>> terms of this interest group, are these reasonable keystroke
>>> definitions given the context?
>> I received a number of interesting responses. In particular, one  
>> fellow
>> had a lot of comments about the visual feedback regarding  
>> selection and
>> focus in the lightbox. I asked him if he would mind my forwarding his
>> email to this group, since his ideas were of a "design" nature. I  
>> have
>> not heard a response. But, since his ideas are worth discussing, I've
>> decided to just quote his suggestions and post them here without
>> providing his email.
>> So: these aren't my ideas, but someone else's. What do people think?
>>> Keyboard Interaction:
>>> The use of the ctrl key with the arrow keys is good. We usually also
>>> map Ctrl+Home and Ctrl+End to move the items (here the image)
>>> horizontally , similar to the effect of standard home and end.
> Ctrl+home and Ctrl+End are a great idea.  In fact, I think they  
> were included in the original descriptions of behavior (or at least  
> should have been :) ).
>>> Recognition:
>>> I think it is quite helpful to indicate the use of the Ctrl key. But
>>> the indication currently is counter-productive because while moving
>>> the user needs to know where the object has moved to. Due to the
>>> half-tone coloring it is much harder to recognize than using the
>>> standard focus coloring . From my opinion the focus should keep the
>>> current colo rs (you don ’ t really lose the focus here) but a small
>>> icon or other additional indicator shows the effect of m oving, most
>>> favorable a similar indicator as the mouse would indicate when  
>>> moving
>>> objects in all directions. (Use Alt+Space, then select “ move ” in
>>> Windows. The mouse cursor changes to indicate the effect.)
> Took me a minute to understand what this meant but I think I do now  
> and totally agree.  Essentially, the visual feedback on the image  
> being moved via keyboard is backwards from moving with a mouse.  We  
> currently display the moving image opaquely for keyboard but not  
> mouse.  Since the keyboard moves the image immediately (rather than  
> just showing where it would be moved until it is dropped like with  
> the mouse) showing where it moved to is tricky.  It takes a lot of  
> focus to "see" the image as it is moving (and others are moving to  
> make room for it) and I don't think we can expect users will have  
> that kind of focus on a task like this.  I think this person  
> suggests we also use the red line indicator to show where the image  
> is moving to.  Since the image moves right away I'm not sure how  
> helpful that would be.  In my mind the problem is staying with the  
> image as it moves.  Perhaps it could use less opacity and a strong  
> outline to help differentiate it from the other thumbnails on the  
> page?
> -Daphne
>> -- 
>> ;;;;joseph
>> 'A dog, a panic in a pagoda'
>>  - "Bob", W. A. Yankovic -
>> _______________________________________________
>> fluid-work mailing list
>> fluid-work at
> Daphne Ogle
> Senior Interaction Designer
> University of California, Berkeley
> Educational Technology Services
> daphne at
> cell (510)847-0308
> _______________________________________________
> fluid-work mailing list
> fluid-work at

Allison Bloodworth
Senior User Interaction Designer
Educational Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(415) 377-8243
abloodworth at

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