Collaboration with Oracle.

Jutta Treviranus jutta.treviranus at utoronto.ca
Fri Aug 24 20:14:00 UTC 2007 

That sounds like a good idea  - so we can save 
George's fingers. We may also wish to set aside 
time at the summit meetings next month to discuss 
these topics.

Jutta

At 3:52 PM -0400 8/24/07, Michael Feldstein wrote:
>Should we set up a conference call?
>
>- Michael
>
>
>George Hackman wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>I think the design patterns and the user 
>>testing are probably the best place to start.
>>On this issue...
>>We continue to struggle with "what is the right 
>>level of granularity" for these 
>>patterns...which is quite related to who is the 
>>audience, designers or developers.  Our goal is 
>>that we meet the needs of both.  Also, in 
>>distributed, complex projects such as Sakai, 
>>uPortal & Moodle, what is the right level of 
>>flexibility to promote consistency yet allow 
>>for creative innovation and the "it depends" in 
>>design.
>>
>>I could talk all day on this one as we 
>>struggled quite a bit with it.  We have some 
>>solutions we could share that may or may not 
>>work for you. We are very big into design 
>>patterns at Oracle.
>>How about we do a conference call on this?  I 
>>am out next week on vacation, but towards the 
>>middle end of the following week (8/29 - 8/31 
>>is good for me).
>>
>>
>>On the UE front, I could ask folks in our 
>>larger org to present as well.  Or I could join 
>>the chat myself.  I am not a big emailer, 
>>because my fingers get tired :(  .  But I would 
>>love to talk.
>>Thanks,
>>George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Daphne Ogle wrote:
>>>>
>>>Hi George,
>>>
>>>It's great to hear Oracle will be participating in the Fluid project.
>>>
>>>Welcome!  It would be great to hear about your 
>>>work at Oracle and how we might utilize some 
>>>of your methods, etc. on our Fluid work.  The 
>>>timing is great since we are in the midst of 
>>>defining much of this work for Fluid.  I've 
>>>commented below on some of the biggest 
>>>challenges I see for us from the UX 
>>>perspective.   I'm sure there are more but 
>>>these are just the ones on the top of my mind 
>>>right now.   Does it make sense to schedule a 
>>>conference call or Breeze meeting to talk 
>>>about the topics below (and others people 
>>>think of)?  Are you planning to attend the 
>>>Fluid summit, 
>>>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fall+2007+Fluid+Summit? 
>>>If so we could also include some of this on 
>>>our UX agenda.  My preference would be to talk 
>>>before then since we'll be presenting and 
>>>discussing several Fluid UX processes and 
>>>methodologies at the summit.
>>>
>>>As far as current work in progress, there are 
>>>several activities going on and it would be 
>>>great to have you participate in any or 
>>>all...whatever makes sense from your 
>>>perspective.  Here's the short list:
>>>- UX walkthroughs (a hybrid usability & 
>>>accessibility heuristic combined with 
>>>cognitive walkthroughs) of Sakai, uPortal & 
>>>Moodle, 
>>>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/User+Experience+Walk-throughs. 
>>>Also see Colin's blog post, "Fluid UX 
>>>Walk-throughs Getting Started", 
>>>http://fluidproject.atrc.utoronto.ca/blog/ 
>>>about ways to get involved in this work.
>>>- Several process definitions are being 
>>>created for review and refinement at the 
>>>Summit:  1) User testing protocol, 2) Content 
>>>management research, 
>>>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Content+Management+Research 
>>>(very drafty and still populating with 
>>>information from work last week), 3) Component 
>>>design process, 4) UX walkthrough process and 
>>>protocol (on the wiki at URL above).  These 
>>>are all at various "in-progress" states and 
>>>I'm sure you're thoughts on them would be 
>>>appreciated.  There isn't anything posted yet 
>>>for the user testing or design processes but I 
>>>expect there will be soon.
>>>- Design patterns, 
>>>http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/confluence/display/DESPAT/Home. 
>>>This work is being done within the Sakai 
>>>working group.  Please feel free to join our 
>>>weekly calls and/or give feedback on the 
>>>pattern library thus far.
>>>
>>>-Daphne
>>>>
>>>>George Hackman wrote:
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>Thanks for the intro Jutta.  I look forward 
>>>>>to contributing where I can.  A couple of 
>>>>>topics, I could talk about further include...
>>>>>* UI design patterns and how we use them at 
>>>>>Oracle to promote usability and consistency. 
>>>>>This is a big help for us as we have a lot 
>>>>>of developers to support with a fairly small 
>>>>>UX team.
>>>>>
>>>We continue to struggle with "what is the 
>>>right level of granularity" for these 
>>>patterns...which is quite related to who is 
>>>the audience, designers or developers.  Our 
>>>goal is that we meet the needs of both.  Also, 
>>>in distributed, complex projects such as 
>>>Sakai, uPortal & Moodle, what is the right 
>>>level of flexibility to promote consistency 
>>>yet allow for creative innovation and the "it 
>>>depends" in design.
>>>>>* Accessibility and evolving standards. 
>>>>>Accessibility is key to us as we sell lots 
>>>>>of software to the goverment.  I could talk 
>>>>>about our program and what we are doing here.
>>>>>
>>>Great!  I'm sure we face similar challenges 
>>>here with creating accessible system behavior 
>>>at the same time standards are evolving.
>>>>>* Usability methods that we use at Oracle 
>>>>>(Customer visits (ethnography),  usability 
>>>>>testing (remote and local) etc.).  You are 
>>>>>probably familiar with most of these, but I 
>>>>>could call out what we do differently or 
>>>>>uniquely.
>>>>>
>>>It's always good to hear what others have 
>>>found to work.  I see a big challenge for us 
>>>here to define, suggest, promote UX process 
>>>and methods to a distributed group whom all 
>>>likely already have some process and methods 
>>>in place in their current organization.   How 
>>>much consistency in these activities do we 
>>>need?  How do we make sure the community is 
>>>"brought along" early in the design activities 
>>>(research, modeling, etc.)  Do we require 
>>>(rather than just encourage) research and 
>>>modeling (persona and scenarios for example) 
>>>for instance?   Research will likely be done 
>>>in a distributed manner.  What are the best 
>>>techniques for making sense of the research 
>>>findings (modeling activities are best done, 
>>>or at least started, f2f at a white board for 
>>>instance.
>>>>>These are just starting points.  I am open to new ideas or topics.
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>George
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>fluid-work mailing list
>>>>>fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>>http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><oracle_sig_logo.gif>
>>>>
>>>>Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>>>>Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>>>>PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>>>><oracle_sig_logo.gif>
>>>><michael.feldstein.vcf>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>fluid-work mailing list
>>>>fluid-work at fluidproject.org <mailto:fluid-work at fluidproject.org>
>>>>http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>
>>>Daphne Ogle
>>>Senior Interaction Designer
>>>University of California, Berkeley
>>>Educational Technology Services
>>>daphne at media.berkeley.edu <mailto:daphne at media.berkeley.edu>
>>>cell (510)847-0308
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>--
>
>
>Oracle Email Signature Logo
>Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>
>
>Should we set up a conference call?
>
>- Michael
>
>
>George Hackman wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>I think the design patterns and the user 
>>testing are probably the best place to start.
>>On this issue...
>>We continue to struggle with "what is the right 
>>level of granularity" for these 
>>patterns...which is quite related to who is the 
>>audience, designers or developers.  Our goal is 
>>that we meet the needs of both.  Also, in 
>>distributed, complex projects such as Sakai, 
>>uPortal & Moodle, what is the right level of 
>>flexibility to promote consistency yet allow 
>>for creative innovation and the "it depends" in 
>>design.
>>
>>I could talk all day on this one as we 
>>struggled quite a bit with it.  We have some 
>>solutions we could share that may or may not 
>>work for you. We are very big into design 
>>patterns at Oracle.
>>How about we do a conference call on this?  I 
>>am out next week on vacation, but towards the 
>>middle end of the following week (8/29 - 8/31 
>>is good for me).
>>
>>
>>On the UE front, I could ask folks in our 
>>larger org to present as well.  Or I could join 
>>the chat myself.  I am not a big emailer, 
>>because my fingers get tired :(  .  But I would 
>>love to talk.
>>Thanks,
>>George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Daphne Ogle wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>Hi George,
>>>
>>>It's great to hear Oracle will be participating in the Fluid project.
>>>
>>>Welcome!  It would be great to hear about your 
>>>work at Oracle and how we might utilize some 
>>>of your methods, etc. on our Fluid work.  The 
>>>timing is great since we are in the midst of 
>>>defining much of this work for Fluid.  I've 
>>>commented below on some of the biggest 
>>>challenges I see for us from the UX 
>>>perspective.   I'm sure there are more but 
>>>these are just the ones on the top of my mind 
>>>right now.   Does it make sense to schedule a 
>>>conference call or Breeze meeting to talk 
>>>about the topics below (and others people 
>>>think of)?  Are you planning to attend the 
>>>Fluid summit, 
>>><http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fall+2007+Fluid+Summit>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fall+2007+Fluid+Summit? 
>>>If so we could also include some of this on 
>>>our UX agenda.  My preference would be to talk 
>>>before then since we'll be presenting and 
>>>discussing several Fluid UX processes and 
>>>methodologies at the summit.
>>>
>>>As far as current work in progress, there are 
>>>several activities going on and it would be 
>>>great to have you participate in any or 
>>>all...whatever makes sense from your 
>>>perspective.  Here's the short list:
>>>- UX walkthroughs (a hybrid usability & 
>>>accessibility heuristic combined with 
>>>cognitive walkthroughs) of Sakai, uPortal & 
>>>Moodle, 
>>><http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/User+Experience+Walk-throughs>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/User+Experience+Walk-throughs. 
>>>Also see Colin's blog post, "Fluid UX 
>>>Walk-throughs Getting Started", 
>>><http://fluidproject.atrc.utoronto.ca/blog/>http://fluidproject.atrc.utoronto.ca/blog/ 
>>>about ways to get involved in this work.
>>>- Several process definitions are being 
>>>created for review and refinement at the 
>>>Summit:  1) User testing protocol, 2) Content 
>>>management research, 
>>><http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Content+Management+Research>http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Content+Management+Research 
>>>(very drafty and still populating with 
>>>information from work last week), 3) Component 
>>>design process, 4) UX walkthrough process and 
>>>protocol (on the wiki at URL above).  These 
>>>are all at various "in-progress" states and 
>>>I'm sure you're thoughts on them would be 
>>>appreciated.  There isn't anything posted yet 
>>>for the user testing or design processes but I 
>>>expect there will be soon.
>>>- Design patterns, 
>>><http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/confluence/display/DESPAT/Home>http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/confluence/display/DESPAT/Home. 
>>>This work is being done within the Sakai 
>>>working group.  Please feel free to join our 
>>>weekly calls and/or give feedback on the 
>>>pattern library thus far.
>>>
>>>-Daphne
>>>
>>>>
>>>>George Hackman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>Thanks for the intro Jutta.  I look forward 
>>>>>to contributing where I can.  A couple of 
>>>>>topics, I could talk about further include...
>>>>>* UI design patterns and how we use them at 
>>>>>Oracle to promote usability and consistency. 
>>>>>This is a big help for us as we have a lot 
>>>>>of developers to support with a fairly small 
>>>>>UX team.
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>We continue to struggle with "what is the 
>>>right level of granularity" for these 
>>>patterns...which is quite related to who is 
>>>the audience, designers or developers.  Our 
>>>goal is that we meet the needs of both.  Also, 
>>>in distributed, complex projects such as 
>>>Sakai, uPortal & Moodle, what is the right 
>>>level of flexibility to promote consistency 
>>>yet allow for creative innovation and the "it 
>>>depends" in design.
>>>
>>>>>* Accessibility and evolving standards. 
>>>>>Accessibility is key to us as we sell lots 
>>>>>of software to the goverment.  I could talk 
>>>>>about our program and what we are doing here.
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>Great!  I'm sure we face similar challenges 
>>>here with creating accessible system behavior 
>>>at the same time standards are evolving.
>>>
>>>>>* Usability methods that we use at Oracle 
>>>>>(Customer visits (ethnography),  usability 
>>>>>testing (remote and local) etc.).  You are 
>>>>>probably familiar with most of these, but I 
>>>>>could call out what we do differently or 
>>>>>uniquely.
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>It's always good to hear what others have 
>>>found to work.  I see a big challenge for us 
>>>here to define, suggest, promote UX process 
>>>and methods to a distributed group whom all 
>>>likely already have some process and methods 
>>>in place in their current organization.   How 
>>>much consistency in these activities do we 
>>>need?  How do we make sure the community is 
>>>"brought along" early in the design activities 
>>>(research, modeling, etc.)  Do we require 
>>>(rather than just encourage) research and 
>>>modeling (persona and scenarios for example) 
>>>for instance?   Research will likely be done 
>>>in a distributed manner.  What are the best 
>>>techniques for making sense of the research 
>>>findings (modeling activities are best done, 
>>>or at least started, f2f at a white board for 
>>>instance.
>>>
>>>>>These are just starting points.  I am open to new ideas or topics.
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>George
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>fluid-work mailing list
>>>>><mailto:fluid-work at fluidproject.org>fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>>>>><http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work>http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><oracle_sig_logo.gif>
>>>>
>>>>Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>>>>Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>>>>PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>>>><oracle_sig_logo.gif>
>>>><michael.feldstein.vcf>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>fluid-work mailing list
>>>><mailto:fluid-work at fluidproject.org>fluid-work at fluidproject.org 
>>>><mailto:fluid-work at fluidproject.org><mailto:fluid-work at fluidproject.org>
>>>><http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work>http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
>>>>
>>>
>>>Daphne Ogle
>>>Senior Interaction Designer
>>>University of California, Berkeley
>>>Educational Technology Services
>>><mailto:daphne at media.berkeley.edu>daphne at media.berkeley.edu 
>>><mailto:daphne at media.berkeley.edu><mailto:daphne at media.berkeley.edu>
>>>cell (510)847-0308
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>--
>
>
>
>Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>
>Attachment converted: Jutta · 
>Powerbook:michael.feldstein 6.vcf (TEXT/ttxt) 
>(000F7A86)
>_______________________________________________
>fluid-work mailing list
>fluid-work at fluidproject.org
>http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
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